Always Be Cool (ABC) Podcast - Bobby Kerr & Darren Copeland of

#151 Frank Hicks - Owner, Knuckleheads World Famous Music Venue; C.E.O. of the F.O.G. (F*cking Old Guys) Club

July 12, 2023 Bobby Kerr & Darren Copeland Season 2 Episode 151
Always Be Cool (ABC) Podcast - Bobby Kerr & Darren Copeland of
#151 Frank Hicks - Owner, Knuckleheads World Famous Music Venue; C.E.O. of the F.O.G. (F*cking Old Guys) Club
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Show Notes Transcript

 Famous musicians to play Knuckleheads:  

  • Merle Haggard, Sturgill Simpson, Bruce Hornsby, Edgar & Johnny Winter, Aaron Neville, Kevin Bacon, Blackberry Smoke, Burton Cummings of the Guess Who, Buddy Guy, David Allen Coe, Don McLean, Fabulous Thunderbirds, Johny Lang, Kiefer Sutherland, Kevin Costner, Los Lonely Boys, Marcus King, Poco, Queensryche, Uncle Cracker, Randy Bachman, Skid Row, Tanya Tucker, Bob Jovi, Soulshine
  • Humble beginnings - Motorcycle repair shop (FOG Cycles) turned best live music venue in the midwest.
    • Story of how the name of the business came to be? (Three Stooges)
    • Importance of not being married to an idea or business idea for eternity - plans change sometimes, growth mindset, etc.
  • Leon Russell first show you booked, that didn’t quite pan out? - 6 Gold Records, 2 Grammys - Story about getting burned and life lessons surrounding this occasion
    • Schooled up on contract law, etc
  • Story of murals of deceased musicians?
  • History of Knuckleheads site and buildings? History of Music and entertainment in the East Bottoms
    • Late 1800s - Heim Brewing Co
    • Railcars would carry customers to/from the brewery & City Market
  • Defiance during covid - Govt overreach, importance of live music during troubling economic and uncertain times
  • Knuckleheads - 5 venues in one - How did the idea of turning the bike repair shop into a live music venue turn into 5 venues?
  • My first experience and knowledge of Knucks - “Billy Bob Thornton’s band plays there!”
    • Actually just played there last week
  • Before Reiger Whiskey’s massive operation ... .why and how did you choose the East Bottoms area in KC and how did you, essentially, convince people from all over to visit the E.Bottoms when they probably wouldn’t have otherwise?
  • TRAIN - The train’s howl shakes walls and rattles doors. It’s also frequently responsible for eerie, magical moments that can happen only at Knuckleheads. “Joe Ely was playing here one time…..
  • Expansion of outdoor area - why? Big cost to you?
  • Business lesson: Slow and steady wins the race, 1% better every day and then 25 years later….you’re where you are.
  • “This is the kind of stuff that makes you feel like you’ve done something.” - Frank Hicks
  • “Was never about the money. It was about having a big party with friends, in my backyard. Everyone who comes here is equal and we all come for the same reason - to enjoy live music.”
  • Known for charity fundraisers and community events - Frankie D, 86 year old Kansas City man who was dragged to death in a carjacking in 2017, while trying to fight off t
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All right, everybody. It's the Always Be Cool podcast hanging out with your hosts, Bobby Kerr, Darren Copeland. What's up, everyone? Hanging in the Summit Lending Studios. We are very excited today. We have a special guest. We have long time Kansas City businessman, entrepreneur and owner of famed live music venue, Knuckleheads, Mr. Frank Hicks. All right, everyone, here we go. Owner of Knuckleheads Saloon, open in 2001, Kansas City's premier place for live music. It was voted Bobby number one for live music, number one for Rock Music Club. number one for country music and also number one for best jam. Past performers are really cool. Includes Aaron Neville, Merle Haggard, Blackberry Smoke, even Kevin Costner, a personal favorite of mine. If you go onto the website, they have a star wars scroll of all the past performers on there. And it's just, when you guys get a second, check it out. It's absolutely amazing. So all around awesome guy here in the studio with us today, Frank Hicks. Welcome to the show. All right. Are you guys sure you're talking about me? Hey, we read it just like you sent it to us. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yes, exactly. Well, you know, Darren touched. I thought you left something out there. Oh, there's a there's a whole bunch. I'm sure we could include in there. You know, actually, Darren just touched on it. So he gave a couple of premier artists that have ran through Knuckleheads. I mean, the list goes on and on. Darren said some really big ones. Bruce Hornsby, Bruce Hornsby in the range. I love the Aaron Neville reference. I even had that down to. But, you know, I think it's really cool is that a lot of. what most people think of as movie stars or past television stars actually have a side gig being a rock star on the side. Guys like Kevin Bacon, Kevin Costner, Billy Bob, who's been a long time player at Knucklehead. So why don't you talk a little bit, we'll just get started right away about how some of those folks have come into the Knuckleheads family because they come back each and every year. Yeah, I do. Not really sure how they got it. No, just kidding. I'm not sure who the first one was. I think the first one was John Corbett. Oh yeah. From, uh, sex in the city and big fat, great wedding. Yeah, absolutely. Anyway, uh, he started coming there and, uh, came two or three times. He come one day with a guy by the name of Duke tomato. Okay. And, uh, didn't go well. John had all these beautiful girls coming down to see him. And Duke was the child as he had like two fans and waiting to hear him play. And you know, he got really mad and Duke tomato, oh, Duke tomato. I don't know who that is clearly. No one else did either Well, I actually had to ask him to leave the club and not come back really you get really bad because I don't know what the Deal was he thought he should go on and John was playing having a good time and girls was loving him And at least John Corbett, right? And so He went over about 20 30 minutes a lot of bands do sure but Duke wouldn't have in that, you know He just he thought he's so when Duke got up when he finally left Duke got on stage and John felt kind of bad. So he come down and talk to him. I said, well, let's just get up here with him. Cause you know, John's of what I played because he doesn't really play nothing. So I handed him a washboard. I said, let's play this, you know? So can I say things like ass? Yeah, you can say whatever you want. So Duke being the ass that he was, he kind of put him on a solo spot. With a washboard. Yeah, with something he's never played in his life. And then of course it sounded like crap. Right. They were trying to embarrass him and then he reached over to my microphone and said something to me like, he used to be a boxer or something. He goes, if you do that again, I'm gonna kick your ass. And I said, when you get off stage, come and talk to me. So I got off stage and handed me his money. He said, get the hell out of here and don't come back. But anyway, that's the first start. Then it was, I think it was Billy Bob came next. Then we had Keith Sutherland. No kidding. If it cost you a course. Mm-hmm. Who would you say, who would you say out of those celebrities? Oops, sorry. Out of those celebrities, who was like really good? Was it Billy Bob? Who has like some talent on that on stage? You know, it's funny that you mentioned that, because I hate to say this, I might go back after people, but most bands that or actors that want to be singers, carry a really good band with them. Yeah. I mean, an excellent band, so you know. Yeah, right. It's kind of like if you've seen Cher or Tina Turner in those days when she started getting older, they have all these beautiful women surround them, so your eyes are going like this, you never know what's going to look. Right. Well, they do that on the thing, but they were all pretty good. I mean, I think Billy's probably the most talented one. I love Billy, he's just... great guy and he's down to earth and his first love was music. Okay. And there's a lot of stories about him, but, uh, his first love was music. He was a roadie for an integrated dirt band. I did not know that. And he also, uh, there was a guy named Scott Weiss that owns, uh, atomic music. You've heard of them? Yeah. I mean, music is a big agency. It's kind of like, uh, state farm where they have. several agencies, but they're all kind of like independent franchise independent, but they're under that label, right? and what made it cool is kind of like it did kind of like a Walmart because if you wanted to book Bob and Joey, then you If somebody had him on this roster All these other people had access to you, too So it's kind of like, you know, but a Walmart you can go to any Walmart. Yeah, it's the same stuff So that was kind of cool, but he lived with him I was talking to Scott one day and he said that, Billy said, well, you know, I'm not making it here. So he threw all these bags in the back of an old mobile and headed to California. And he had been riding sling blade for a long time. Yeah. Yeah, so. makes a living doing acting and writing but his love his passions music yeah number one so i know the music i mean when he comes in from what i pay him which is pretty good but compared to what he makes a movie nothing sure no but it's his passion right so he's willing he loves it you know he has fun and he was just here a couple nights ago he was yeah a couple things about Billy he was standing out in the railroad tracks by looking to train because he's standing right really close as close as we are watching train go by and he's sitting there smoking a cigarette gonna stare at a train and knew it was on the line. I said, Billy, you ain't gonna do it, are you? He goes, I was thinking about it. Don't jump on that. You know what it sounds like, Billy Bob. Don't jump on that. He was gonna jump the train. Oh my gosh. Well, that's a perfect segue. Let's talk about the train, right? I wasn't gonna jump into it this quick. What train, right? So, for those of us that are listening that have never been to Knuckleheads, and I'll let you tell the full story, but there is literally a train that runs right through Essentially the venue. It's the East Bottoms. Yeah, it's the East Bottoms. It's really a long way, just 33 feet from the stage. 33 from the stage, yeah. So you could be right in the middle of playing a song and a train comes through whistling. Straight up. But that's part of the allure. Like I remember years and years ago before I ever had the privilege of playing at Knuckleheads, I remember hearing the stories about Billy Bob Thornton's band and Kevin Bacon and of course the train. So like these are the things that are synonymous with knuckleheads and with Kansas City. So maybe just talk a little bit about the train, how that is such an important integral part of the culture. Well, the train first was a pain in the ass because they did that. Just like when Aaron Neville was singing like a ballad train, just blowing the damn horn, it blows it like it really is only like 20 seconds. Right. Sounds like 20 minutes when you sing it. Exactly. And you're going like, Oh, how's this artist going to take this? But most of them embrace it. Most of them really like it. Ray Price hated it. I read that. He absolutely hated it, but, uh, real Haggard, he loved it and went by. He went and started playing Postman Prison Blues and, uh, Marty Stewart, when he was playing there and train goes by and he's been in the orange blossom special and so they kind of like, Oh wow. You know, and, uh, Raul Mal, when he come, he came solo several times, but, uh, the last time he was here solo train goes by right in the middle of the, till I gained control of the game song or something, something real cool ballad. And he goes by and he just goes stops, wait, he's a laugh. It's a, okay, I'll finish them. It was just like, okay, you know, it's a matter of life. It's going to come back. Yeah. I can't do anything about it. And some of the train guys, you know, they just do it and honk as long as they can. Some of them real courteous. They honk as short as they can. And they're actually trying to get it right now. Uh, rigor next door is trying to get it to work. It doesn't honk. Hmm. Yeah. So what they're doing, they're making like a. They wanted to close the street down, actually close down the Montgall so that the train wouldn't have to honk, put guardrails up. And so they have to honk. It's actually, well, they're supposed to. Yeah. This is a lot of supposed to honk if they cross the intersection. Okay. And so if they, then they come back and they wanted to put these barcades in it to work blockades where you can't go, couldn't go around it no matter how hard you try, because most of the time when things are down, you could take your car and I guess there's been a lot of accidents and stuff do that. But anyway, they want to do that. And then we veto that wouldn't happen. So now they're trying to get it where it's silent and have some kind of building Jerusalem lines and the streets saying okay, like we're not supposed to cross this. Okay, not actually supposed to climb. I've been guilty. I've climbed across the trains to get to have you from Rieger back to knuckleheads like after sound check. Yeah, because you don't want to drive around. Not gonna go. Yeah. I don't see what the problem is. I mean, if they serve alcohol in that area and there's moving trains, I don't see how anything could ever go wrong. Why would that be bad? Yeah. Sure. You should chop your leg off or something. Yeah. No biggie. Well, so the East Bottoms, Darren brought it up. East Bottoms, obviously most people in Kansas City are very, very familiar with the West Bottoms. That's kind of the more the more famous, but there is a lot of history in the East Bottoms. So maybe tell us a little bit, tell the listeners about. why you chose there. And actually, you know what, let's go to the very beginning. Let's start with the bike shop. Okay. I was born in the East bottoms. Let's talk about the bike shop and how let's tell the story of how everything came to be. Okay. Well, let's go back to the collision repair shop. Okay. The collision repair shop is a big truck, semi-diesels, school buses and so forth. And sorry, my eyes are watering. You're okay. Then anyway, I had a body shop on the 18th They decided they wanted to build some houses and condos and stuff there. So they come and relocated me. They took me down to fifth and truest down the, uh, when you say they, like the city, come down, move me down to fifth and truest. And that was in like a mile from city market, a mile East. And it's right there in the Columbus park area. So we stayed there for like five years, but I was looking for a place to go. And we'd always go down to this little restaurant on the corner of a chestnut. And. Nicholson. Okay. And it's not there a little longer, but it used to be town topic. Oh, we'd always go down there for lunch, but not always, but three times a week. Good. And for lunch. And I saw this place for sale. It was the fire station. And so I don't remember you guys are too young to remember this, but it was Katz drug store was a big deal in Kansas City. Then it turned into, I think Osco. Yeah. Then Osco turned into CVS. Okay. Well, the guy that used to own Katz drug store, his name is Itis Katz. He owned this, he bought it from the city when they had an auction. And so I bought it from him in 1980. And so what I was looking for was an obscure place that nobody would give me crap about paint fumes and about the diesel noise and all that. So it wasn't even had nothing to do with knuckleheads. Motorcycle shops and all this I just wanted somewhere he would leave me in a hell alone Let me do my thing and don't give me so I bought this place and then so I started expanding it and Over the years we expanded quite a bit, but it was a big body shop and we did all the rider truck rental Right truck room every time you see somebody go over one of these Underpasses are going to gas station and roofs not tall enough. I was the guy that fixed it. And school buses, they had, you know, school buses, they have actually had quite a bit of accidents on them. What they do, they, they all waiting in line, especially after they started where you have to go and check the kids. Everybody's in such a hurry to hit the brakes. This guy stops and this guy don't see him and backs in, you know, but it's, don't hurt nobody, but just sure. Knock the hood off of it or the bumper or something. So I got fixed that too. But, uh, that's how I got in these bottoms. Well, the place where the knuckleheads is at his old building was a boarding house for, uh, train guys on time in the early eighties. I'm, we'll get in this too, but like electric park, electric park is where the garage is at. Okay. Yeah. Cause I even had a note that electric park was what back in 1899. It was back in like, yeah, like 1901 or right at the 1900. And, uh, here's something interesting. They had the first outdoor venue in America. Really? No kidding. And now we got one with a hundred some years later. But anyway, it was, uh, electric park, nobody really cared too much about it. I mean, it was history and they forgot about it. It moved up to. I'm not sure where, somewhere in Prospect, like 40th and Prospect, I probably got the address wrong, but somewhere up there. It was there for like seven years. But at one time, High End Brewery, which is now Rigger, somewhere they, the story is they dug a tunnel or a pipeline underneath the ground all the way through. So when you went to Electric Park, you could get a cold beer out of a beer garden. It came fresh from the brewery over there. So anyway, this was all part of the history. And... So this lady had this train house, but in the, I think it was like 1930s or something like that. I don't know how it came about, but a doctor bought it. And they had a doctor on one side, it was like a duplex, a doctor on one side, where the Gospel Lounge is at, was a car factory. Okay. And this lady, she was like 70, some years old, like 72, I think when I moved there. And so... She was by herself and the doctor who, I don't know the story behind this either, but the doctor delivered her and raised her. So I don't know if her mother died on table, I don't know what her mother, I don't know what the story was about that. But when the doctor left, he left her everything. House and property and all that. So the bank still actually owned it. She's lived here all she wanted to, but the bank actually owned it. But anyway, everything she wanted, she called the bank and they have to get it for her. So it was kind of a trust thing. I stayed here what I want. But anyway, these people would just literally screw it to hell. But you know, if you wanted to paint it, they wouldn't scrape it, they just don't want them. They go, oh, we can get by with this. And they just paint over this. Pretty soon the paint's like 10 inches thick. So anyway, I got pretty good friends with her because I didn't want her bitching about the train, I mean the truck starting and you know, all that. We got become pretty good friends. I have motor grass for her, which is like. three feet, ten feet. But it was the favor that she appreciated. Yeah, it's the effort. So anyway, when she called me up one day, I think she was I was 75 or 76 and she was going to the nursing home. She got tired of being alone. She didn't think if she fell down, nobody would catch her next to her. Right. And I wasn't there enough to really, I might catch her the next day, but by then it was too late. So she went to nursing home and the place sat there empty. I wanted to buy it because nothing to do with nut lids. I wanted to buy it just to keep neighbors that are somebody out of it to bitching at me about what I'm doing across the street. Kind of like write a first refusal basically. So my wife's uncle owned a real estate company called Deluna Realty. What was it called? Deluna. Okay. And so he was pretty good for it. He'd come down, he says, I want to buy that. He goes, okay. The bank wanted like 50 or 55,000 for it. It wasn't worth that. So he said, what do you want to pay? I just want to pay 5,000. Probably won't get it for that, but he said, I said, Hey, who the hell is going to live here? You know? True. So after about, took almost a year, the bank decided they wanted to offer their, they wanted to get rid of it. The one was gone. They went off the books. This is the last thing. So they took my $5,000. Did they really? What year was that? That was 85. 85? Holy. So now I own the building that used to be a boarding house, not knowing what the hell to do with it. So I had one of my employees, they're single, he lived over there. He lived there probably until about 10 years. And he kept doing some maintenance work around it. But in 97, I've been riding motorcycles forever and start fixing them up at the body shop, of course. And so what I did, how I got in that business was I'd fix them up for myself. Then we'd ride to like a rally or to, you know, bike night or Frankie D's or whatever. And somebody would like it and say, what do you want for it? Okay. And that puts an outrageous price on it because I didn't want to sell it. They'd buy it. So I had to call my wife, I sold them. And I love it. So what happened was I was trying to this is a long story to get to. Well, do you want to tell the people is that coming later what the F.O.G. stands for? I tell you now. Go ahead. Well, it depends on who you are. OK. If it's for real, it's if it's Bobby, it's fucking OK. But we went my son called me up one day. He wanted to go to Christian Raleigh. OK. And so we had I had this pretty road came to us all fixed up and when she had engraved the I don't know if you've noticed, but then you go into the restroom and there's like a leg hanging over the men's bathroom. So I used to have that in my saddle bag hanging out there like that. So we get down to Newark, Texas. Kenneth Copeland Bike Brawler. And Sunday, he picked one of my Harleys that we just rode down there. But we get down there, somebody walked up and said, that's a beautiful motorcycle, what's that full G stand for? I thought, boy, I can't say it here, you know? I said, friends of God. At the Christian bike rally. They said, what's that leg hanging out the back? I said, that's Satan, you only open that. So I got a trap back here. But anyway, going back to the story. So I had this motorcycle shop there. And what I did, I was just really going to do it for myself because I fixed so many motorcycles, I haven't sold them. Then I had a bunch of friends who was doing that too. So you had to buy$100,000 for the parts to become a dealer. Well, I was spending 50 or 60 myself, and I had a couple of, I had like three friends and I was spending money on a motorcycle. So that was no brainer, so I bought, and got the dealership started called the FOG Cycles, FOG Cycles. Nice. Well. My friends would tell everybody and I was had to buy a shop across street and it probably would never change. I said my friends kept telling everybody, hey, we go down and get these parts for the motorcycle over here. And it stopped me from what I'm doing. I had to go over and open up the books, order them some pipes through tires or whatever they wanted. And so it got really crazy. I said, uh, how did a counter guy never intended for it to be a business? And it became really the damn. You bought a hundred thousand dollars worth of. were their goods and you didn't intend it to be a legitimate business? No, no, it was an expensive hobby for him and his buddies. Right. I was selling 10 to 15 motorcycles a year. Just as ones that you did. Just on my garage. My wife picked me up. So she got selfish and want to park her car in the garage. Yes. It was hot when I got here. It was cold. So anyway, so I put him in there and had his parts are it. The gospel land was the only part of it, because the other guy was still living there. Okay. And so it started getting pretty big and started growing. It was just all by word of mouth. If you want a good deal, go down and see fog cycles. And actually I really became a thorn in the flesh to work for Harley-Davidson. And I go, how in the hell could I be, that's like I'm a pimple on an elephant's butt, right? But it just started growing like nuts. And so then I decided, well. Hell, now I got to really get people down here because I'm not selling enough to really make it worth it. So we started having street parties. And of course me being in truck business, I put a flatbed trailer out there. And I put the first one I hired was Danielle Nicole. From Trampoline Foot. Trampoline Foot, yeah. And her band was called Fresh Brew at the time. I think she was 17. Yeah. So we put bands out there and went over pretty well. I was giving her free beer away. Well, I'm telling you, you get free beer away. Here they come. I'm telling you, you never see so many people in life. You build it, they will come. You give it, they will come. So, man, all these people in it, that cost me a fortune, but I was really getting, everybody knew where Fog Psych was at. And so if this gets too long, boring, tell me. Hey man. So we've got four hours. I've got a very important question for you. on the beer part, right? I don't want to like over like, go right ahead. So did you make buddies with like the Budweiser people or something like that to be like, Hey, come on down and you know, help us out and just buy some cases. I was so far on the radar. I didn't want them to know what I was doing. But because I didn't have liquor lessons, right? Yeah. So I was given that you have to give it away. Right. So you take donations, right? Well, I didn't was more than I do that first. The friends of God could have accepted donations. I should have done that, but I didn't. But, uh, so anyway, after we started doing these, we started getting up to a thousand people every time we did. Wow. So now the place, and I really made it, Falk Cycle was a destination. And I put, has t-shirts like it's worth it. The adventure is worth it. I forget how I said it, but anyway, the finds worth the adventure and so forth. And so I started getting people really. a lot of traffic coming through and it come down these bottoms and stuff. And then I decided a friend of mine was, uh, I played in country band, Ronnie Raulston, and he was doing like suddenly he come down Saturdays, but also around and go sit and drink some beer. And so then I quit giving beer away. I started charging$10 to get in, but still, I mean, if you give somebody and then this probably make everybody mad, but if you give somebody a beer. or a drink and water is down or gets hot and it's free. You throw the damn thing away and we'll get you another one. Absolutely. If you pay for it, you're gonna drink. Mm-hmm. That's true. So the $10 really didn't cover everything. So I started putting beer in coke machines. Like vending machines. Yeah. And you go over and put a dollar or two, whatever it was, a dollar I think, and get you a Bud Light. Mm-hmm. But you know. Everything was cool. My attorney, I had a real good friend, my attorney, he's a, we shoot pool every Tuesday. And he told me, he says, his name's Bill, Frank, you need to get a license. Liquor license? You know, you're going to enough beer, so you need to get a license. So we tried and it was like. You go up to the liquor control and tell them you're a motorcycle shop. You want a beer license. That's going to work out great. It's like, you've got a bugger on your nose. Oh, worse than that. Look like he's an idiot. You know, I said, well, bill, I don't think it's going to work. But anyway, so the only thing that really happened one day, a guy brought his kid in, he was shopping and kids running around in the store, like all kids do. And so he asked his dad for a dollar to get a Coke. Well, I really had a Coke machine. He got the wrong machine. And he come back and said, dad, what's this? The Coke's gone bad. It was a Miller light. I said, oh shit, it's time to, it's time to call Bill. Hey Bill, can you help me get a license here? So that's what happened there. Within the showroom, we built a showroom for the motorcycles. And then. Ronnie kept coming down Saturday afternoon and just playing guitars and everybody started getting around him the next night. Somebody else would bring guitar and somebody bring harmonica and we had a jam session, right? Yup. So we decided, okay, we're going to do this every Saturday. So we had a little trailer back there that, it's the kitchen, and we served tacos and beer out of it. Well, Bill got me my license and it was 2002, one or two, I don't know, I can't remember. I got my license so it was legal. I could sell beer with them. And, uh, but the crowd coming in on Saturdays was amazing. So, you know, they come down from Sawick Cycle, but they also come down to hear the music and have beer and stuff and tacos. So we had to move the motorcycles out because it become a little stage in the corner by the size of this desk. And people, you know, we had local bands come in and play. So we started opening on Saturday nights. That started going well enough. We started opening on Friday nights. I don't really remember why in hell I did this, but Wednesday. So you go Wednesday, then you skip Thursday, then you go Friday and Saturday. This just sucks, you know, this is weird. So you know who Billy Ebeling is, right? Yeah. So I'm down in the corner of 12th and Barney Young's... Plaza. Plaza there. And so we're, I don't know if you remember what we were doing, wiping our water around here. And Billy and his brother were sitting on the corner, like, you know, thank you, when he was all playing tunes and stuff, and had to get to our case open, he put the money in, and he'd buy, at the time, it was cassettes. Yeah. Buy a cassette for like five bucks. So I listened to Billy, I really liked him, and we went up somewhere and had some lunch and stuff. So I told my wife, I said, I think we should do an open jam. So I went back to Billy, I said, Billy. You ever think about doing a jam? No, but I would. So we started thinking about it. So he'd been there 20 years now. That's incredible. That's amazing. So then we saw Levytown up at the... Gosh, yeah. I think it was maybe four or five years later. I think they'd been there 16 or 17, but it was, uh, we saw them at Winslow's barbecue. Okay. Yeah. They were playing and I noticed, and I want to produce to help them. So Sunday I want to get away and do something besides hanging out in my bar. I want to go somewhere else. So I go up there and listen to them. I liked them. And, uh, I noticed they had to play where it was cold, whether it's raining or why it is outside and, you know. So I said, Hey guys, I'll play inside every Sunday. Yeah. So I hired Levy down there and, uh, I wasn't ashamed of stealing, you know, sure. The business, like another personal, maybe just still your band. So that's how that came about. And then I think it was 2005 or six. Knuckleheads was so big that I had to close the motorcycle shop down because it Truthfully, I was paying the counter guy like, I don't know, 25, 30,000 a year. And I was bringing in like 31. Right. So I thought man, for a thousand bucks a year, it ain't worth it. Right. So I got rid of that and I was still loved. I mean, still people still come down at it. Used to come to fog cycles. And so every year, uh, we still have a reunion once a year for the fog cycles. And I think we're into our. 25th year or something like that. Wow, so how did the name Knuckleheads come about? Okay, the name Knuckleheads was, because I was really into Harleys, and I don't know if you know anything about motors, but the best looking Harley engine ever made was the Knucklehead. And not the most reliable, not the most defendable, but the best looking one. Aesthetically pleasing. It looked like two knuckles sticking out like that. And so, they quit making it the year I was born. Okay, oh wow. So. It was kind of a thing for me because, you know, I was wanting one, but it was so damn expensive I couldn't afford one. I mean, a knucklehead would probably cost you a hundred thousand dollars. Whew. Just for the engine? Just for the bike. I mean, it's a nice bike. Wow. But, uh. I mean, if you get a really pristine, but it's not cost you anything but 50 to a hundred. Absolutely. And my father and I used to sit around and watch three studios all the time. He was always calling each other knuckleheads. So everybody said, well, we're gonna name this place because we had to name it now. I had to start from the fog. I couldn't keep calling it fog cycles. I said, it's called knuckleheads. That's how that came about. Love it. That's perfect. Do you ever look back at this and just... Are you blown away at all, Frank, with where you started and where you're at now? I mean, now you're up to what? Four stages? Five stages? Right. I don't really, I mean, I don't have time to stop and look up at it. I did have, and I still have a friend. He still have a friend. But he come over one day and goes, he watched the whole thing. His brother actually worked for me in motorcycling. So he says, have you ever took a chair and sit down with a I don't drink beer, he drinks beer. And I said, with a whiskey or something, look at someone, I don't know what you're talking about. So we got two folding chairs. We went over, sat at the garage, and looked over at knuckleheads. Cause we'd knocked down so many houses, and built this, built the other stages. And I go, I never really looked at it. I mean, I did it, and I knew it was there, but to sit back and look at it as a spectator, or like somebody who's never seen it before, I hadn't seen it. So then... We took the chairs and we were sitting up there and we looked at the garage. Because I mean the garage, if you ever seen it, it was just one bay. One bay, one bay in office. It was a, it was a fire station only for, a fire station only built for Cargill across the arena up the street. Cause when they put the traffic way in there, you know, the train's going, they had a fire station on the other side of the street, but you could never get to it because they had to go all the way around. So they built this one. And then when they consolidated and went up on the Infants Avenue and Harstie, they closed these two down. Cause all they did there. Wow. That's how mine become. So the garage where the location of the garage is right now, that's where the fire station is made. No kidding. Yeah. When you talk about sitting there and being able to actually soak it all in, look at it from basically 30,000 feet, right? And really just look at what you've done. I literally just put myself in the same position. So I'm sitting. in my mind on the street, looking at the garage and immediately what comes to mind is the beautiful murals that have been painted on the exterior of all of like the famous deceased musicians. Tell a story of how that came about. Is it the same person that you've commissioned to do all of that phenomenal work? So, I mean, it's just such an iconic part of Knuckleheads and talk about some, maybe some of the artists that have been featured and why you've chosen some. That's a great question. Well, that's a good question. Yeah, we started one day. Steve Bohall. He's done all the paintings. Everyone. How do you, what, Bohall? Bohall. Okay, cool. And all his clients, Brohall, he gets mad, but it's Bohall. But we were sitting there one day and I knew he was painting murals and stuff. And I said, why don't we put a big Steve Reavon up on the peak of the building? So we did and it looked really good and people started commenting on it. One day we had Elvis Presley. So it started going like that. And in one way I had a little Richard Chuck Perry. So really most of these people up there are kind of like my personal picks. But I mean, I know there's a lot of people that had passed that I really need to be on the wall. But some of them's played there, some of them haven't, but there's like people that's really influenced my life in music. And you know what I mean? It's like, what were we sitting there one day, you know who guitar shorty is? I don't. Okay. We'll get to our shorties. Probably he passed away now. He was probably 85 or 86 But the thing about guitar shorty real short and kind of stocky play guitar But he'd always sit there that I don't know how he did it But he would flip all the way around backwards on stage still playing back up playing the guitar Okay, it was like it was a real deal to him He come down one day and a lot of musicians do that to come down when I'm not around Like I don't go down on a Sunday too much because I've been there all week and have the jam and I should go down there I'm not gonna make excuses. I just don't go. You're there a lot. Yeah. So Shorty came down one day and said, I'm with Lebbytown on a jam. He looked over at all the wall and I said, man, tell Frank I wanna be on that. And I think it was Brandon or Jack said, no, you really don't. You gotta be dead to be on there. And Shorty says, you tell Frank I'm in no hurry. I'm in no hurry to be on there. You know, we... earlier when we were talking about all the famous musicians that have come through Knucklids, we forgot to mention Bob Jovi and Soul Shine. I mean, obviously we just accidentally omitted those. But I remember one night is well, when was this? Twenty twenty one, maybe it was the day after Eddie Van Halen passed away and Bob Jovi had a show. So the next night it was maybe like Big Summer Jam show or something. And and Steve was out there. painting the mural. I mean, we're talking within hours. Was that the one outside? Yes. Yeah. So it was like within hours of Eddie Van Halen dying, there's Steve doing the mural. So like, is that like legit? Like he's just now he comes and does this on his own or you still have to- No, no. We talk to each other and call in. It's kind of like he was on the wall before he was in the grave, but yeah, it was like, you know, Andy Van Halen was such a big part of everybody's life. Yeah. And I just thought he should get on the wall as soon as possible. Steve, you know, I mean, that's what he does. He had some time come down. Yeah. You guys weren't messing around on that one, were you? No, no, it didn't do, it didn't mess around Tom Petty either. No. Right. Well, speaking of which, you know, you've seen so much talent come through. I mean, just like we talked about in the beginning, the scroll of all the different acts that were coming through. Is there a couple of stories or a couple of acts that just stick in your mind that like, man, those are some of our favorites that we really have enjoyed seeing. And I know it might be hard picking a few, yeah, picking a few favorites, but is there any one or two stories or people that stick out in your mind? God, there's plenty of them, but the one I personally liked, I think, and I think it's because... I just really was a fan of him was Ray Price. He was like the Frank Sinatra country music. And I remember the first time I booked him, he'd come in on a bus and he got there really early. Most people on buses get there early. They drive all night. He parked there at six o'clock in the morning. And I came to my at the time real job at the body shop and there was this bus over there. So I went over and met him and I said, hey Ray, you want anything? I'd like to have a six pack of Diet Coke. I said, damn, I think I'm gonna handle that, you know? So I had a guy that worked for me, and I said, hey, go down a quick trip and get me some Coke, maybe want some Coke, it's okay. Make sure you get Diet Coke and make sure it's cold. So he comes back and about, this is like probably nine o'clock in the morning, eight or nine. So around noon I went over to, how about you need anything? Don't make me burn some lunch or something. Sure like to have some Diet Coke. I said some more, never got the first. Oh, what the hell? So I go over to ask my guy, I said, Steve, what the hell did you do with the Coke? Still in the back of the truck. You never told me what to do with it. Oh my gosh. I said, well, why would I want cold diet Coke to be in the back of the truck? So I said, go give me another case. I said, 12 pack. I took him to the bus, go to Ray. Well, two things happened when Ray finally come out of the bus. I mean, I just met him at the bus. You know, you don't really pay a lot of attention. Have you ever seen Ray Price? No. I mean, I know who he is. I've never seen him. He's always got this like suit on. He's like, you know, really cool and boardy suits and all this. He looks like the Frank Sinatra, he's like, sure. When he comes off the bus, he's kind of got the slumped shoulders because he's pretty old. He had suspenders on and a plaid shirt and I call sand the belt pants. Pants go way clear. Oh my God, that cannot be Ray Price. He doesn't look like Ray Price, but in the face he did. But it's just like you see people out of their character and you go, I'm sure I looked like Ray Price. Right. Because you're probably, you go back to like your younger years of how you picture somebody, right? And they're like immortalized. He has a built up version of Ray Price. So Ray comes in the door, but people told me, and I said, when Ray comes in, he will look at everything on your wall. He's really observing everything. So he comes in, he's looking around, we're gonna knuckle heads, you know how many pictures I got in here. So he looks at all the pictures. There's one picture of him in there, playing the guitar, left-handed or something. It's opposite of what he plays. And he goes, where'd you get that Marty Stewart picture? I said, how do you, I didn't know who was talking. I said, well, you mean Marty Strayer. He's the only asshole to make me play left handed. Oh, no way. He does that. He does, he transpose you like, you know, like in a mirror where you see, he said, I don't play guitar, I play it this way. You know, or whatever. That's funny. I thought that was funny. And he looks at everything and he goes, yeah, what's calling me son? Son, we have some really big artists here. We have some great people here. I go. your frigging rate price. You're the man. I'm thinking you're, you know, you top them all right now. And so anyway, I put him up there and so, say I have a true story, I put him out there and I didn't know how to advertise country music at the time, you know, and most of the state radio stations wanted so damn much money. I mean, you want like, you know, $4,000 to advertise show. So anyway, at the time I was paying a very certain fee and I thought, you know, what When the show was over, it was a great show, it was an absolutely great show, but I lost $9,000. And I knew I was gonna lose $9,000. And I spent, I don't wanna say what the radio station is, but I spent about 25 to $2,800 in advertising, hoping to pick up, and it didn't. And so the guy that, kind of one of the managers of the station, he wanted to come to the show, so I sat in a caboose watching Ray Price. The guy was just chatting, talking, talking. And I asked him to turn around. I said, would you mind doing something for me? He said, what the shut the hell up. If I'm going to lose a hundred dollars a minute, I want to hear every fucking minute. A hundred dollars a minute. Could you just be quiet? That's an amazing story. Well, you know, we talk, you talk about promoting country music, rock music. I mean, the artists that we. we mentioned in the intro and a little bit throughout. I mean, we're talking blues, rock and roll, metal, country, pop, R&B, gospel. You've got such an eclectic group of artists and fans that come through Knuckleheads that did you ever, I mean, did you imagine in your wildest dreams that Knuckleheads was gonna be this cornucopia of music for Kansas City and for basically for the entire country? Because I mean, you've seen me perform so many times, but every time I'm there, the thing I always say without fail is, this is my favorite live music venue in the entire world. I've played all over the world and this is it right here. And I am like, so many other people say the exact same thing. So for it to go in, essentially we're talking 20 years, 25 years to go from Danielle playing on a flatbed trailer to being the world renowned knuckleheads right now. I mean, just to hear that, does that really hit you? No, it really doesn't. It really doesn't because... I don't know. It just seems like I never really had a master plan. Right. You know? Mm-hmm. And I never really, I did know that I needed to brand a place when I started. Like I brand in fog cycles. Like I brand in mid-city collision. Mm-hmm. You have to, you know, look, make people know who you are. And in order to do that, you have to do certain things that will bring them to you, like free beer. Right. But, uh. No, I never really saw it. It's kind of organically grown. I've said that several times. And I've had numerous offers to make a franchise or go build one, something like that, and put it together for somebody. I don't know if I could do it again. I mean, I really don't because I don't know what the hell I did last time to get it there. It just kind of happened organically. It kind of happened. And the thing is... It's like really crazy. If I see something that I think needs to be done, I just go do it. And then I don't think about it. But one thing I do, dude, I think that everybody should do, any kind of business they got, look at it like a customer. So when I come in and I see napkins or something all over the floor, I go pick them up. And I tell my staff, hey, people don't want to see dirty glasses sitting on tables and all that. So let's be, you know, if number one, we might be a roadhouse look, but it's clean. You go to the bathroom, it's clean, you know? And so I just kind of want things to be like I would want it. And I think the whole success for Knuckleheads is that... I made it more like it's a party in my backyard. If you come over, you're my friend, you're a welcome guest, and we're going to treat you as such. And I don't care if I've ever seen you before in my life. And that's just how it is. And it definitely has that feel. When you go to concerts there, you know, it's kind of like going to a neighborhood band, right? You're hanging out with all your buddies and you know, Bobby and I've been, you know, super fortunate to, you know, hang out at Royals fancy camp and have a huge collection of guys that we all just love each other and We go watch music and hang out and it's just amazing. And there is one thing I wanted to ask you about the garage. Is there a story to, cause you have some very unique seats inside of the garage. So is there any backstory to some of those airline seats that are in there up on the, I believe it's on the upper level. They're actually out of movie theater. Are they really? You're out of the one to see where to get those in. First of all, let me back up a second. Most of the stuff you see in knuckleheads. is, when I say organically grown, given to me. Free. Free, yes. So there was a theater, I'm pretty sure it was in Lee's Summit and we had a guy named Butch Cook come down all the time from Fog Sock, he'd come all the time, he didn't want to turn and knuckle heads, he still came. And he worked for a big company, did all commercial painting. So his movie theater was getting restored. I think I went down to Lee's Summit, Douglas is that name? Douglas? Yeah. I think it was that one. Okay. They were taking all the seats out, putting new seats in, because now everybody wants these kind recline and have all this stuff in, so they said, come get however many seats you want. So I couldn't got all I could fit in a trailer. Sure. So we went and got the seats and, uh, the deal about, this is kind of a crazy story, but the deal about the garage, when I first built it, it was, you know, 45 by 60. Then we added 95 over here by 35 and we added 40 by 95 over here. But then we had to get the trucks in. We had a parking lot out there, so we didn't think about building it down and digging it down, we just built it. So to get the trucks in, you go in there for ramp. Okay. They put the truck in there. Okay. So now when I made a venue out of it, we still had the ramp there. I said, hell, nobody wants to stand like this and look at the contract. No. So we took these. flat bed trailers from a place I used to work at and I did work for and I bought them and welded them together and I made it like a double deck out of it. So that's it now how you know I can make them stand we get a whole lot of people up there but if I put these steeder seats on there they're gonna be really comfortable and they're gonna have good seats they've got a place to put your drink and all that. Yeah absolutely. That's how that comes about. That's awesome. That is great. I've got a question so let's talk a little bit about COVID because as an art, right. As an artist, that time for artists, for anybody in the gig economy, for people that own food and beverage establishments was a scary time was none of us knew what was going to be going on. And it was just very, very uncertain and shaky. The one person that in my life that was part of this world that said, basically the show must go on was you. And I know that you caught some flak from it. Maybe just a little bit. So let's, I mean, these are some great stories to tell. And now that we're kind of, we're past this, we're through this. Tell the perspective of a venue owner who works with artists and works with employees who depend on that paycheck, how you got through that time, how it was scary and some of the flak that you did catch for it. Okay. Well, the main thing to save my ass was I owned all the property. had no rent to do, you know? I mean, I still had taxes to pay, but I didn't have no landlord saying, I want my money whether COVID's in or not. I do rent one lot and I ask him, could I have a Slack? I think, hell no. I'm as COVID too, you know? So I understood. But we just started doing the best we can. So we started doing it. You had to have, remember, if I'm correct about this, I think I am. You can only have 10% of your capacity. Yeah. Well, the thing about, good thing for me was I had an outdoor, indoor, outdoor and a back room. And so I could take 10% of that capacity and put people back here, back here, back here and still get, you know, 150 people. So it worked out pretty good. Most of them were outside if the weather, you know, good. And so what I could do was 1200. scale it down to 120, but I could just have the answer that I could afford to put in for 120 people. And so the back room, I mean it holds like 80. I couldn't do the gospel. Yeah. So I couldn't really do nothing for eight people, but you know, we just painted the stages to be what they were. The garage is a scale to be 720. That means I could put 72 people in it. So it's still worth doing a show. Just kind of scoot the chairs up, make a lot of rooms where that looks kind of looks full. And so we did that. And then, uh, they come down and they actually, it's kind of crazy to come down and I was sitting there, you got to close up at 10 o'clock, so everything had to be, you know, done and over with by 10 o'clock. Then you had an hour to clean up and you know, get the mess straightened up. So here was the problem I found that when you closed up at the band, played them 10. And then you had to actually stop at 9.30 to have people out there by 10. They had to be out there by 10. Well, then you got to get banned out, not loaded out, clean up the mess, stock the bar, do all the stuff you got to do. You got an hour to do it in. We got pretty good at it. We could do it, but then all your buddy. There's just human beings wanting to sit down and have a drink. I worked my ass off all night and I liked to have a beer. So they come in one night and we were all sitting there, just maybe four or five of us, including myself, having a cocktail after 11 to 5. We just got through at 11, we were just going to have a beer and go home at 11.30. Just kind of bullshit about what happened today and all this. And they come down and say, we're going to shut you down if we find you this way again. I said, I can't be, I mean, doors are locked and I'm not selling it. Right. Nope. You can't be in here. To me, you can't even be in your own damn place, you know? Anyway, so that, that happened. That was pretty, uh, traumatic for me to think, you know, in our lifestyle, you can own a business, but somebody can tell you, you can't be there. This really sucks. So anyway, uh, the, the liquor control guy, really great people up here, uh, called me one day and said, you know you can sell beer to go or not only beer any kind of liquor to go and I said well no I didn't but since COVID happened they started changing some of the rules a little bit and so you could sell it as long as it had a lid on so I did something I probably would get in trouble for now but the property over there like we're all handicapped things rat I put tables and chairs out there and I said okay You guys, I mean, I can't serve you out there, but you can come to the door, and I can give you six pack of beer and six tacos, or I can give you three margaritas and whatever. And so we stayed alive that way. Okay. Doing the bands on a 10%, we stayed alive, and then selling tacos at the door. Well, if you looked across the street, it's a garage area, not the garage itself, but the whole outside area. Like we'd have a hell of a party. But they'd come down on Saturday and Sunday and they would stay there from like 11 o'clock to like 6.30 at night. So I had Billy Ebening come down one day. I said, you know, I can turn the music on, but go out there and play a little bit. I said, I can't pay you. But you know. probably did something, but I couldn't. I said, go out there and play a little bit, just give them some loanary entertainment. So we kept it going like that, it kind of turned out to be, we weren't making a lot of money, but we kept five employees. You kept a flow. Yeah, I kept five employees, key employees, alive and going and doing it, do that. And so then the 10% was raised to 50%. And then 50% of the grade for me, you know, but then that means I could put 300 in the garage. I could, you know, 600 apps, you know, so that's how we got to it. I remember, I don't remember the date, but I do remember it was, I think there was a rumor that. Knuckleheads was allowing more than what the city was saying. And there was a, you didn't believe that. Did you? Of course not. No, no. There was a Bob Jovi show and the news came that night. and the news station was outside while all the people were in line and cameras and everything. They actually, when were you at that show? Liz and I pulled up and they pulled up next to us. Yes. And so then, then the all the hens start cackling, right? And every, oh my gosh, the, the show is going to get shut down tonight. And like, oh, there's too many people. We're going to start sending people away. It was just such an awful time. Like just the anxiety that people had. I can't imagine working in the hospitality industry at that time. It's just that you need to be recognized as someone who made it important and made it a key factor to keep key, you know, team members on the payroll, make sure that they're providing for their families and themselves. It doesn't go without being noticed that was a pretty incredible thing to keep such a great place going and keep great team members that are still on staff today. Well, and kudos to you, you know, Frank for, man, not caving, you know, just keep going on and yeah. playing with them, the rules that were there and keep pressing on. That's awesome. Thank you. Couple of those interviews almost got my ass in trouble. I remember, I remember, uh, do you have any horror stories of artists that, I mean, if you don't, if you want to, you know, keep it anonymous, like Duke tomato, like Duke tomato. Yeah. Like just where it was not necessarily where you had to say, like, F you get out. You're never welcome back, but just where. maybe somebody let you down, you meet somebody like, man, that guy was kind of a jerk. It's kind of a DB. Yeah. There's been a few like that. I mean, not really a lot of them, but there was like, okay, when we had, it was a crazy show. I hate to talk about names, but I'm gonna tell you anyway. Booked a show and I was really after Don McLean. Yeah, American Pie. But it comes as a package, Don McLean and Judy Collins. Okay. Well, I loved Judy Collins back in the day, a couple songs, but I didn't know how it was gonna go over him and she's getting old and stuff. And then, but I went ahead and booked it to get Don McLean. And then I started watching television and I saw a live show like a week before she come in the clits. She's in London, singing this big ass castle in a fucking rug. She does it on cost more than knuckleheads ever thought about me. Holy crap. She ain't even like this place at all. Yeah. I mean, knuckleheads is one place you walk into you either like or you don't. It's roadhouse style. Yeah. Judy Collins is really doesn't fit here. Don McLean, maybe, you know, But they get there, Judy Collins was so damn nice. She was so nice and so gracious that she was singing, what was her big song? Here Come the Clowns, something like that. Send in the Clowns? Send in the Clowns, something like that. The Sinatra song, yeah. It's that she was singing it in a frigging Drango's bar. And this guy honked his horn, I think, I think he honked it for independence. To Columbia? Yeah. And she was so gracious about it. Good. She just kept singing it. I'm just getting through. So if you couldn't hear that, could I sing that again? And she's laughed. She says the train was kind of cool going by, but I'm not sure you heard me. So she sang it again. It's really good. Oh, that's sweet. Well, so I go in to meet Don McClain. OK, OK. I walked in, I said, Don likes to have you here and walk in. Are you the guy that pays me? That's that was the first thing he says. Friggin words come in my you got to pay me. I see. You know what, Don, I am. Let me know when you need it. We. And I said, I walked down and said, if I could, I'd like to talk to him. Wow. And he wanted to give me a picture signed. I didn't want the picture signed. He pissed me off. Sure. You know? And Judy Collins was so nice that, I don't know if you guys know Corky, but Corky took her to the airport the next morning. And she forgot to get a knucklehead shirt and she wanted one. Well, Corky had one on. He says, is there any place around here to sell shirts? He didn't know it, she was asking for it, you know? And she's, he's well known plays on over 20 here in airports, Cracker Barrel, but it's all kind of short. I'm going to pick you out one. I want the shirt you got. She wants a knucklehead shirt. Yeah. That's amazing. Hell yeah. I give it to her. I want it. You know, so you were very pleasantly surprised on how cool. I was so surprised at the difference between the two. Yeah. If you had asked me, I would have bet Tom was going to be that way. And she was going to be real picky and, you know, and she was just so polite and, you know, that's amazing. So is there, uh, Is there any cool things that you would like to promote coming up, whether it's this summer or the fall, anything that you have going on that you'd like to throw out there to everyone? Summer, July 29th. Do we have four hours? Yes. And go. Well, we just announced today, I guess pretty good shows we announced today. We got Lucas Nelson coming back. My guy, Lucas Nelson. And he's going to be here September 16th. Then I got, I kind of like this. You guys know who Jimbo Mappas is? I don't. Okay. Well, he's got a project he calls Squirrel Nut Zippers. Squirrel Nut Zippers. And it's a crazy. Yeah, I know those guys. Crazy show. Yeah. It's so entertaining. This is kind of like musical circus almost. And they're coming in December doing a musical, what do you call it? Something about musical Caravan to Hell Christmas show. That's awesome. Something like that. I'm gonna screw that up, it's something close to that. Yeah, we got a lot of big shows coming up and. summer jam July 29th. Summer jam. We got the summer jam. We're not announcing this yet but soon as it's over we'll get winter jam. Yeah baby. Yeah yeah. Well you know so that's an interesting transition really quick. So summer jam obviously it's a it's a recreation of what was happening back in the summer of like 1977. All these massive rock and roll bands and now it's of course the tribute band version. So summer jam it's what Steve Miller, Bon Jovi, that realm, right? A lot of venues now across the country and in Kansas City in particular. Now, as a tribute artist myself, I'm well aware of this, but a lot of venues have pulled back from booking tribute bands. But Frank Hicks and Knuckleheads has always leaned into it. So number one, why? And number two, why do you continue to go that route? Obviously it makes money so you wouldn't do it. Talk a little bit about that because everybody else is pulling back. Well, I think the thing about tribute bands, okay? And I really feel like I'm pretty picky about which ones I get. And I think the ones I get are good quality bands. And I think a lot of artists, I'm gonna go back to my friend Bill to help me get to look for lessons. He is a huge fan of Phil Collins. Yeah. Oh, nice. I'm gonna get Terry to come down and do the Phil Collins experience. Does it once a year. So my buddy comes down here, I mean, when he was had, I had about six beers in him, he freaking thought he was watching Phil Collins. Yeah. That's amazing. And, but I'm saying that to say this, most of the tribute bands we have, they're so damn good that you almost really feel like you're seeing the real show and you get into people. I think what the thing about tribute bands for me is the way we go about presenting it and the way that the artists that we booked to present it. It brings back the memories. And they sit back and go, man, I remember, that was a good time. I had my first date with my wife and we went and saw, you know. Bon Jovi and, or we went and saw, you know, Kiss or whoever it was. And so now they're going to, their memories going back to go, hell, this was a great time when I hit, when I saw this for real, even like the Bob Sigertree, but he's a real good. Yeah. So they thinking, you know, Hey, I heard when night moves came out, you know where I was at? So you're really talking, you're talking about nostalgia, which we know nostalgia sells. Right. And you're talking about, you know, a certain age group, right. Um, and. I want to throw out a shout out to some of the biggest fans of Knuckleheads that come down to see the tribute bands of Tim and Jamie Clark that we've got to know from Royals Camp. But you're talking middle-aged people, you know, forties, fifties, sixties, just like you said, it's taken them way back in the day. You know, it's reminded them of dates that they were on. And plus, you know, that age of people, that demographic, they're the ones that are going to show up and pay, right? Well, one thing about Knuckleheads, most, I mean, we have Some younger people come in too, but our demographic is that age, you know, 40 to 60. And I think that me being old, I think maybe, you know, going back and picking out the bands that I like, like I was always a huge fan of Johnny Rivers. I brought him in four times. I mean, I loved his music. Not so much the guy, but I loved the music. You know, uh, Johnny's a nice, I mean, he's a nice guy. He's just old school, but uh, You get some of those like that and you get like, you know, Scott's band, your band, and you get all these people that, uh, and they do it because they love it. And I think that a lot of them really like Elton Dan, for example, I think they get into it and they become, yeah, for those 90 minutes, 90 minutes, you're, you're Bon Jovi. for 90 minutes. He's Elton Dan, Elton Jan, John. That's a great idea though. Elton Jan, any lady wanting to start an Elvis or start an Elton John tribute, man. And you know, speaking of that tribute thing, okay. I have a running Elvis tribute. Yeah. That he goes every, the last Friday of every month. And he's been with us for, I don't know, 15 years. I was on a ship in the middle of the ocean on Delver and McClinton's cruise. Okay. And we were in, uh, there one night and I had enough place to put on and a guy that never met says, Hey, you go to that place alone. I've, you know, I don't tell people I really own that. Don't you get all the bitch in that way too. You get a compliment. Yeah, I've been there. Yeah. So I just, yeah, I go there quite a bit, you know, and, uh, he's me and I here to get a hell of a Elvis tribute. And I'm going, okay. And it's, I mean, Delaware and all the people's on the ships all played in my place, there was Lucas there. There was, uh, Mavericks. Oh, yeah. All these guys were on the ship. I remember that. He's telling me, you know, about my Elvis guy. And first of all, how many of you know about Elvis? They're out here. That's where you're from. He said, Atlanta. I said, Atlanta, Georgia. Because yeah. How many hell do you know about Elvis? You know, I mean, the, the truck. And he goes, Oh man, I got a sister Liz and a little town. in Kansas, I can't remember the name of it now. It's about 50, it's past Ottawa, it's about 50 or 60 miles out. She tells me what a great guy it is, and you know, great man, she sent me pictures of stuff all the time. When I saw knuckleheads, I knew it. And I said, well, this is cool, it's really cool, because it don't matter how. In my opinion, it don't matter how they found out about knuckles as long as they found out if it's Bob Jovi or whether it's almost Kiss or whether it's Elvis or whether it's Ray Price or whether it's a real hacker. Yep. They bring people to knuckleheads and ain't that what I'm here for? That's absolutely, you know what? And I think that's a perfect way to end this because I've got a quote that goes exactly with what you said, Frank. And it said, it was never about the money. It was about having a big party with friends in my backyard. Everyone who comes here is equal and we all come for the same reason and to enjoy live music. I mean, that is the perfect way to summarize. That was on a great day, man. Frank Hicks. Thank you so much for being part of the show today. This is an absolute pleasure. Everybody can check out knuckleheads at You can find them on Instagram, Facebook, et cetera, at knuckleheadskc. A ton of great shows coming up again. Summer Jam on Friday, July 29th, a lot of great tribute bands. And of course, we just announced Lucas Nelson also on September 16th. So make sure to find him and knuckleheads online. Make sure to listen and subscribe to the Always Be Cool podcast on Facebook and Instagram. We have a five star review. Find us wherever you listen to podcasts, guys. This has been the Always Be Cool podcast. Darren Copeland, Bobby Kerr and Mr. Frank Hicks. Thank you.